Liveaboard sailboat insurance is a popular choice for sailors, as most boat owners take a passive approach to the process. On average, you can expect to pay between 1,500 and 2,500 per year for catamaran insurance. For a 40-foot catamaran, you can expect to pay up to 3,000 per year for the insurance, while larger catamarans can cost up to 3% or more. Factors that influence cost include sailing area and policy type.
Liveaboard sailboat insurance typically costs between 200 and 1000, depending on factors such as the boat’s size, age, and capacity. The best liveaboard catamaran sailboats include Manta 42, Dolphin Ocema 42, Bali 4.5, Privilege 435, Fountaine Pajot Saba 50, Voyage 580, and Lagoon 620. Insurance pricing is driven by actuarial loss history, not personal experience. Larger boats owned by owners who haven’t owned large boats may face higher premiums.
Insurance pricing is driven by actuarial loss history, not personal experience. Larger boats owned by owners who haven’t owned large boats may face higher premiums. The Club Marine Pleasure Craft Insurance Target Market Determination becomes effective on 5th October 2021, making it essential to consider the value of insurance when traveling the world. Third party property and public indemnity are all that one should need to travel the world.
📹 Sailboat Insurance, Ugh…and a few tips (e.73)|⛵ The Foster Journey
Getting insurance for our sailboat, Cadence – it’s been quite the headache, and we never really knew who to trust. Our first year …
What is the minimum size catamaran for ocean sailing?
Although it is possible to undertake a long voyage with almost any size catamaran, the recommended minimum sized catamaran to embark on an around-the-world voyage is around 30 feet in length which includes just enough space for a cabin and storage space for long-term provisions. A better option, reported as being the best-sized vessel for such a voyage, is 45-50 feet with widened hulls that afford the crew a better level of comfort with features such as multiple bathrooms, private cabins, and separate cooking and dining sections. Leaning towards the upper-sized catamarans for around-the-world voyages, the maximum size is 55-60 feet which offers significantly enhanced levels of comfort.
As touched upon above, the answer to the question “Can you sail a catamaran around the world” is yes you can but traveling in comfort can make all the difference and bigger is generally better. This is not to say that smaller vessels do not have what it takes to deliver a trouble-free voyage around the world, but levels of comfort must be considered for trips of a long duration.
Freeboard: Cruising catamarans,the type best suited to world circumnavigation, have a high freeboard, which means that the decks are situated relatively high above the water which mitigates most of the risk of being washed over by large waves.
Are catamarans good in rough seas?
Weight Distribution and Buoyancy. Catamarans are designed to distribute weight evenly between the two hulls. This buoyant structure can offer advantages in rough water, contributing to its ability to handle waves differently than monohulls.
Catamarans vs. Monohulls: A Comparative Safety. Stability in Waves. The dual-hulled catamaran is often lauded for its stability. In rough seas, a catamaran’s broader beam can prevent excessive heeling, which might reassure those aboard.
Maneuverability Concerns. A catamaran’s wider shape can sometimes affect its maneuverability in tight situations. Skippers need to be adept at handling these vessels, especially in the unpredictable Greek waters.
Do catamarans tip over?
Sea Action And High Winds Cause Capsizing. We do know of a couple of instances where large waves off Richards Bay on the East coast of South Africa and one off the Wildcoast of South Africa capsized catamarans. However, a monohull in similar conditions would also have capsized but it would have self righted because of its lead keel. A catamaran will not self right, however there is some comfort in the fact that modern catamarans have positive buoyancy, so if you capsize or fracture a hull, you will not sink like a mono hull can. You could stay with the vessel for shelter and protection until you are rescued. Survival of the crew in that case is much elevated. The risk of capsizing is something we are prepared to live with (it could happen on any boat) and if you sail your catamaran conservatively, this should not even be an issue. Racing Catamarans often capsize because they are little more than Hobie Cats driven to the edge under extreme conditions, so it really should not be in this discussion.
Catamarans Have Redundancy. Another positive safety issue is of course redundancy. Cruising catamarans have two diesel engines and an engine failure on a catamaran is not a catastrophe like it could be on a monohull. I remember being in this very predicament on my monohull when cruising in the Mediterranean off the coast of France. It was a real bugger navigating past the obstacles (naturally we were close to the coast when disaster struck) and sailing into a crowded anchorage. If I had been on my catamaran, I simply would have motored in on one engine. The second engine can still move the boat, create electricity and charge batteries, so no problem.
Crew Fatigue Is A Safety Issue. The last issue concerning safety is tired, over worked crew. Crew “fatigue” is negligible on a catamaran. You generally get a good sleep even in rough seas. Sail changes and reefing is much easier and safer as you operate on a more stable and flat platform and the risk of serious injuries and falling overboard is diminished considerably. Fresh and alert crew contributes to a much safer vessel.
Why are catamarans not popular?
When we built our monohull Royal Salute in the early 90s, catamarans were not established and were looked upon with extreme suspicion by most cruisers, including ourselves. “Safety and the capsize” issue were always the first things to come up against sailing catamarans. It is a fact that monohulls can get rolled in heavy seas but will right themselves because of the heavy lead keel, and while crew and vessel will be battered, the roll is survivable.
However a catamaran once capsized, will remain upside down (jokingly referring to this state of the catamaran as “reaching its most stable position when upside down”). The inability of a catamaran to self-right was and still is a major bone of contention. However, what is not often discussed is that a monohull has about a 5,000 pound keel of lead that is constantly trying to drag the boat to the bottom of the ocean versus a catamaran that has no ballast and is in most cases with modern catamarans, unsinkable.
So the options are to either sail the world on a boat that, if it springs a leak, will sink like a stone or a vessel that cannot self-right in the event of a capsize but will not sink no matter what. So from a practical point of view, here are our observations over the last 25+ years of living aboard, on the advantages and disadvantages of a catamaran.
What are the downsides of catamarans?
Catamaran Cons Because a wide bridge deck is strapped between two hulls, there can be slapping or pounding while underway in heavier seas. The slapping can become annoying, but is easily resolved by reducing sail. Unfortunately, that means reducing speed as well.
Pros & Cons of hiring a Catamaran or Monohull for your Whitsunday Yacht Charter. Some dyed-in-the-wool purists have been known to demonstrate a little “sailing snobbery” from time to time.Putting sailing snobbery aside … if planning a sailing vacation and you aren’t sure whether you want acatamaranor amonohull, you need to weigh the pros and cons of each to see what makes more sense for your purposes. Personally, I quite like both … for different reasons!
- One of the major advantages of a catamaran versus a monohull is their inherent stability. A monohull simply can’t be compared to a cat in this regard.
- Stability is a big plus for families with young children or seniors who are not particularly steady on their feet. Because the boat is notassusceptible to the effects of wave action and does not heal the way a monohull does, it is much easier to walk around on deck and within the interior of the yacht while underway.
- Anyone who may be prone to seasickness will feel the effects of motion much less aboard a cat than they might on a mono.The added stability on a cat makes the cook’s job a lot less challenging both while underway and at anchor. Catamarans don’t rock and roll the way monohulls do.
More Bonus Points for Cats…. Catamarans generally provide far more living space in the main salon, galley and cockpit, than the space found aboard similarly priced monohulls. Their cabins are often more spacious too and even the smallest cat in the fleet has stand up headroom in each cabin.; Because of the layout, there is usually more privacy on a cat than on a mono and if you have children aboard, there is greater separation from the main living space and the cabins, making it easier for the kids to fall asleep at a reasonable hour.; The shallow draft of a cat allows you to anchor in shallower water which means you can be closer to the beach than almost all monohulls.; Many of the newer catamarans have raised or flybridge helms. No monohull can beat the visibility from the helm provided on most modern catamarans.; The galley, main salon and cockpit are all on one level,above the water line… making life aboard as well as your view much more enjoyable.; Because the majority of living space is above the waterline, you get much better flow through ventilation on a cat making the need for air conditioning somewhat less important during the daylight hours.; In almost all cases, you do not have to race around stowing things or using bungee cords to keep things in place, the moment you decide to set sail. Most things stay put even in moderately rough seas.; Because catamarans don’t have a big heavy keel loaded with lead, even if you hole the boat, it will float. Production cats have so much buoyancy built in that they are next to impossible to sink.; Cats are usually pretty easy to dock because you have two motors and two rudders. No need for a bow thruster.; Most catamarans can turn 360 degrees within their own length. No monohull I know of can do that.; Catamarans are usually faster than monohulls, particularly on downwind runs, reaches and broad reaches.It’s less tiring to sail a catamaran than it is to sail a monohull. Sailing flat has definite advantages.; If you are into SCUBA diving, carrying tanks and all the assorted equipment is much easier on a cat. It’s also a lot easier in many cases to board a cat on the sugar scoops than it is on many monohulls. Although many modern monohulls do have huge swim platforms that raise and lower electronically … so in that case, it’s a wash.; I have yet to see a monohull with a trampoline for sunbathing or lounging in the moonlight, while stargazing … with your sweetheart by your side! How much more romantic does it get than that? 🙂;
What are the downsides to a catamaran?
Catamaran Cons Because a wide bridge deck is strapped between two hulls, there can be slapping or pounding while underway in heavier seas. The slapping can become annoying, but is easily resolved by reducing sail. Unfortunately, that means reducing speed as well.
Pros & Cons of hiring a Catamaran or Monohull for your Whitsunday Yacht Charter. Some dyed-in-the-wool purists have been known to demonstrate a little “sailing snobbery” from time to time.Putting sailing snobbery aside … if planning a sailing vacation and you aren’t sure whether you want acatamaranor amonohull, you need to weigh the pros and cons of each to see what makes more sense for your purposes. Personally, I quite like both … for different reasons!
- One of the major advantages of a catamaran versus a monohull is their inherent stability. A monohull simply can’t be compared to a cat in this regard.
- Stability is a big plus for families with young children or seniors who are not particularly steady on their feet. Because the boat is notassusceptible to the effects of wave action and does not heal the way a monohull does, it is much easier to walk around on deck and within the interior of the yacht while underway.
- Anyone who may be prone to seasickness will feel the effects of motion much less aboard a cat than they might on a mono.The added stability on a cat makes the cook’s job a lot less challenging both while underway and at anchor. Catamarans don’t rock and roll the way monohulls do.
More Bonus Points for Cats…. Catamarans generally provide far more living space in the main salon, galley and cockpit, than the space found aboard similarly priced monohulls. Their cabins are often more spacious too and even the smallest cat in the fleet has stand up headroom in each cabin.; Because of the layout, there is usually more privacy on a cat than on a mono and if you have children aboard, there is greater separation from the main living space and the cabins, making it easier for the kids to fall asleep at a reasonable hour.; The shallow draft of a cat allows you to anchor in shallower water which means you can be closer to the beach than almost all monohulls.; Many of the newer catamarans have raised or flybridge helms. No monohull can beat the visibility from the helm provided on most modern catamarans.; The galley, main salon and cockpit are all on one level,above the water line… making life aboard as well as your view much more enjoyable.; Because the majority of living space is above the waterline, you get much better flow through ventilation on a cat making the need for air conditioning somewhat less important during the daylight hours.; In almost all cases, you do not have to race around stowing things or using bungee cords to keep things in place, the moment you decide to set sail. Most things stay put even in moderately rough seas.; Because catamarans don’t have a big heavy keel loaded with lead, even if you hole the boat, it will float. Production cats have so much buoyancy built in that they are next to impossible to sink.; Cats are usually pretty easy to dock because you have two motors and two rudders. No need for a bow thruster.; Most catamarans can turn 360 degrees within their own length. No monohull I know of can do that.; Catamarans are usually faster than monohulls, particularly on downwind runs, reaches and broad reaches.It’s less tiring to sail a catamaran than it is to sail a monohull. Sailing flat has definite advantages.; If you are into SCUBA diving, carrying tanks and all the assorted equipment is much easier on a cat. It’s also a lot easier in many cases to board a cat on the sugar scoops than it is on many monohulls. Although many modern monohulls do have huge swim platforms that raise and lower electronically … so in that case, it’s a wash.; I have yet to see a monohull with a trampoline for sunbathing or lounging in the moonlight, while stargazing … with your sweetheart by your side! How much more romantic does it get than that? 🙂;
What are the negatives of catamarans?
4. Sea Handling and Comfort. Motion in Rough Seas. While catamarans are stable in calm waters, their performance in rough seas can be a downside. The twin-hull design can lead to a jerky motion in choppy conditions, which might be uncomfortable for some sailors.
Sensitivity to Weight Distribution. Catamarans are sensitive to weight distribution. Overloading or uneven distribution of weight can affect their performance and stability, making careful packing and provisioning essential.
5. The Learning Curve. Unique Sailing Skills Required. Sailing a catamaran requires a different skill set compared to monohulls. For those accustomed to traditional sailing, there is a learning curve involved in mastering a catamaran, especially regarding tacking and gybing.
Is a catamaran safer than a sailboat?
As catamarans don’t have heavy, lead-loaded keels, they will remain afloat, even when (heaven forbid) they are holed. This is because most modern catamarans have such a large amount of buoyancy built into them that they are almost unsinkable, making them much safer than monohull sailboats in this regard.
Sure, catamarans can capsize, but being rescued from an upside-down, still-floating multihull is definitely preferable to sinking to the bottom in a monohull!
The verdict? Contemporary catamarans are incredibly buoyant and virtually unsinkable, making them safer than monohull sailboats.
Are catamarans safe in rough seas?
Safety Features. From advanced navigation systems to reinforced hulls and automatic reefing systems, contemporary catamarans are equipped with numerous safety features that make them better suited for challenging conditions.
In the next section, we’ll delve deeper into how catamarans handle rough waters, including insights from seasoned sailors, safety protocols, and key features that contribute to a catamaran’s performance in unpredictable seas. We’ll also explore the allure of catamaran charters in Greece and how to ensure a safe and memorable sailing experience amidst the stunning Grecian landscapes.
Navigating Rough Seas: Catamarans at the Helm. The Dynamics of Catamaran Sailing in Turbulent Waters. Understanding how a catamaran reacts to high waves and strong winds is crucial for safe navigation. Its wide stance on the water can make for a smoother ride over waves, reducing the risk of capsizing compared to traditional monohulls.
Is a catamaran sea worthy?
.. Can a catamaran sail rough seas?. Catamarans excel in rough seas, thanks to their twin-hull design providing enhanced stability and reduced heeling compared to monohull sailboats. The unique architecture allows for increased speed and maneuverability, making them efficient in navigating challenging conditions.
Key to their rough-sea capabilities is the bridge deck—the space between the hulls—featuring ample clearance in well-designed catamarans. This minimizes slamming, enhances seaworthiness by reducing structural stress, and ensures a smoother ride in turbulent sea states.
While catamarans can capsize in extreme situations, proper design, operation, and the skill of an experienced captain contribute to their overall capability in handling a variety of sea conditions, ensuring a secure and enjoyable sailing experience, even in rough seas.
Are catamarans good to live on?
And if the comfort of the boat is an essential variable to live this adventure of life at sea in the best way, the reliability and performance of the catamaran as well as the safety on board are even more so. Because, whether you intend to go solo sailing, as a couple or with family and friends, you will only be fully comfortable if you are in full possession of the capabilities of a boat whose performance is no longer to prove and fulfill your requirements and needs. And if you combine daily comfort and real feeling at the helm.
You can then, depending on the size of your crew, the length of your trip and the amount of your budget, choose the ideal model for you.
When you arrive on board, the size of a catamaran could be intimidating.
📹 Why Boat insurance SUCKS
———————————————————————————————- #BoatLife #Travel We’re starting our 6th year as liveaboard …
Seems like the takeaway from your friends experience where their boat washed ashore at a Marine Park is before you abandon ship, scuttle it. Hindsight is always 20/20 and when you’re in the moment you probably just want to get out and away. So I understand all that. Seems like your best bet is to create a disaster plan. In the event of needing to abandon ship, before exiting the ship ensure she’s taking on enough water so she goes down. You’re guaranteed to lose everything (you probably were already anyway) but she won’t wash ashore if she’s an artificial reef miles out to sea.
The big question seems to be: why not flag Curiosity in a country besides the United States with more favorable insurance rates? There’s a lot of info on that if you Google it, but there are several huge things to consider: one is that your vessel is now bound by the laws of whatever country you choose, and it can also affect where you’re allowed to travel (as in, 2 countries with bad relations prohibit vessel entry into each others’ territories). You will also lose the protections that U.S. citizens aboard a U.S. Coast Guard registered vessel are given. Curious Minion
Thanks for all the info. As someone considering a liveaboard lifestyle as a single older female, you have now scared the crap out of me! And appreciated the outtakes. I had no idea you went through so much to make your articles. I’m fascinated by how you seem to stay so upbeat and laugh through anything! If you’re that way even off camera, what a great way to live!
Love you guys My wife and I bought our sailboat last year after being inspired by you guys and on the maiden voyage home we ran hard aground, had to get a three boat tandem tow due to loss of the rudder and have hull damage and grid seperation, total quoted expense $60000 and we had insurance and they cut a check for $60000. Our sailing dreams were almost over after the first voyage, but thankfully having insurance and its just a stepping stone toward our dreams. Repairs had to be done by proffesionals and have to be inspected, so our boat will be back in tip top shape soon
As a licensed captain, boat owner and partner in a marine services company, I can attest that your insurance post is ‘spot on’ and one of the most accurate references for getting insurance these days. I will be passing the link to my customers. As always, your sound and lighting are incredibly good, especially for the dynamic environment you film in. Great job as always!
For all those worried (like I was) with no post this week & no update, Nikki & Jason decided to have a week off and they deserve a break when they want one 🙂 YT is their biggest social media platform, its where they started and would be their biggest income stream, many subscribers would go on from here to become patreons. I am sure the average subscriber would think of Nikki & Jason as friends or family, we care if things are going wrong, we worry if they don’t turn up for our weekly Sunday visit from them. But this week I’m a little bit upset, they didn’t mention anything about a week off on YT, they happily told people on other social media platforms they wouldn’t be posting a article this week but not the subscribers themselves on YT. People have been posting worried if they are ok, and that’s not fair!! A community post on YT takes no time at all & would have stopped subscribers (friends/family) worrying.
First let me say that was an interesting topic. I’ll never complain about car or house insurance again. Pushing him off the boat was wonderful, total surprise for everyone. And in the interest of full disclosure, that suit fits you well and that was wonderful. Has he got you back yet? Did he film it?
I think it is a good public service to tell people about the reality of sailing and not just the idealism of it. I learned the reality of sailing from chartering and that’s why I bought a house but still enjoy cruising and I’m now going on cruise ships 2 interesting places. It’s not the same but it’s what I can do and I believe that more information such as what you guys give out is always very helpful
A friend of mine who lives in Pensacola his lost two boats to hurricanes one from a secure Anchorage and another from a secure dock.. I assume at this point that the insurance company has paid out more to him than they have gotten from him. So the 11,000 that you quoted sounds like nothing compared to the 50,000 he’s now gotten for his totaled sailboats. Your boat is worth considerably more than his since with both of his boats he had to do a lot of work to get them to be nice safe and sailable. I was taught the number one rule of insurance from the business manager of the University that I attended back in the 1970s. He was advising me on what we needed to in sure for our Sailing Club. He said that we needed to insure what we could not afford to lose and I believe the bottom line became that we just needed the liability insurance since our Boats were worth less than a thousand each at the time. I’m glad you were able to get your insurance for the next year and get that off your mind
Nice mix. Some facts and some fun times. I’ll never be able to own a boat so I need you two for the fun times. Has it been 6 years! I was with you when you had the motorhome. I’ve gotten to love the both of you over the years. I think you have become the surrogates for many of us. Please keep us in the loop.
As Youtubers i’m sure you’re writing off virtually every penny as an expense because you travel for a living. I’m sure you are depreciating your boat on an accelerated schedule on your taxes. If not you need a better CPA. The reason I’m bringing this up is it might help you with more opportunities for insurance. You might have some options to get some type of business insurance because of what you do for a living and using your boat as a prop and the foundation of your YouTube articles. You should also look into some type of umbrella policy that could cover your boat. For my business which is mortgages and I’m involved in real estate investing I have a $5 million umbrella policy on top of my other insurance an umbrella policies are often pretty inexpensive. I would look into having your boat owned by your LLC which I’m sure you probably have and operate as an LLC since everything you do is business oriented. So not sure if you guys have looked into that Avenue but if you haven’t that might be an option. Some type of business insurance if the boat is owned by the LLC and not you personally as well as some type of umbrella policy. I would also suggest talking to Bobby of sailing doodles because I’m sure Bobby is operating as an LLC and he used to be involved with airplanes which have similar issues for insurance as sailboats. He sailed all over the Caribbean and Asia and has been involved with some charter companies and other businesses so he may have some insights as well. I’ve been perusal you guys since you were RVing.
“it’s never a problem, until it is” wise words! Honestly, have never thought of all the things that could gone wrong when sailing. We mostly just drool over the amazing looking lifestyle but your article has given us an inside look into the realities. As with most things in life. The reality is far less romantic than the luxurious way that the sailing lifestyle looks 😅 but would definitely put up with all that for the opportunity to sail across the world like you guys 😍
Filming being pushed off a deck into a sharks gaping maw, is that covered by marine insurance? And don’t forget to add your fermented fruit experiments to the resume. Adds buoyancy to the vessel and improves gut health. Btw, the global network of underwriters, the engine behind insuring assets is perhaps the most corrupt and dark enterprise on earth. Just imagine the food fight that’s about to drop over the incident in the Suez canal.
Another great segment. So funny you ended with thumbnail setup. The other day I wondered for the first time….how do they do those – just roll the camera and make faces and poses? LOL – looks like it! As for insurance….they ALL have handy excuses no matter what the situation or coverage…and it all smells like bs. Last year my wife and I parked our cars and worked from home for COVID. Reduced our big city commutes by 90 percent. (You see where this is going…right?) New quote for minimal mileage, non work use…..ta da…..massive ten percent reduction. Outright thievery, collusion, extortion and other big mean words my mother told me weren’t nice to say! 🤬
There’s a famous case of a catamaran that was sailing offshore an island in the SP one night in fairly rough seas and suddenly wound up on an uncharted reef. Total loss, the boat is still there as far as I know. Would have cost more to tow it off than to replace it. So the insurance companies aren’t just whistling Dixie when they get nervous about cruisers.
If you could get insurance on the cleanliness of a boat then you guys would win hands down. No knock to any others and I know it’s just you two so it’s probably pretty easy but you guys have the cleanest boat on Youtube and it may not mean a lot to others but me being my mother’s child and her propensity to have and notice a clean environment having passed to me I definitely noticed and appreciated it.
Here is a tip: You need to haul the boat for bottom paint periodically anyway, so when you do (in normal years) have the boat surveyed at that time. Even though you don’t have to do that, this will mean that the date of last survey is fresher. The survey is a huge wealth of information for them to understand the condition of the boat, and a history of them is even more valuable. It proves your boat resume is correct by a reputable third party. Unfortunately you haven’t been to New Zealand or Australia yet so you didn’t get a chance to do this before COVID hit, but if you had, that might have changed the game. I wonder if the US flag is part of the problem. You absolutely should be getting better quotes because your risk is objectively much lower. I think your 250 mile limit on your initial plan was quite generous (given me experience when I had the same experience you had back then.) But now, you have thousands of miles with no mishaps and you have done quite well at demonstrating your competency and responsibility. Further, money is cheap, so insurance companies should be falling all over themselves to write policies. So something else is at work here. It isn’t you.
Glad to hear you have a new boat policy! I’m with you on having things properly insured. I also cringe each year when the home/car insurance renewal comes up here in Texas. On my 6th company in the last 10 years. Costs are up without any claims/losses…and they keep trying to take coverages away. That’s why I only do 1 year policies….so they can’t get me twice a year. Look forward to seeing your next adventures!
I truly love your articles and how realistic your daily lives are played out. I never realized how difficult Boat Insurance was until now! If I were the C.E.O. of an insurance company, I would be begging to get your business. What great P.R. you generate, as you are not crazy, goofy, reckless, or irritating as some of the sailing bloggers portray themselves. For the past couple of years I have dreamed about sailing in my old age, but the more I watch the challenges of life on the water with the mundane issues such as COVID, and Insurance… I think I will live vicariously safely at home loving you both ! Keep us proud of your adventures !!
Most if not all marinas in Australia require insurance and registration. Some insurance companies are looking at skipper qualifications (not a thing yet) to get insurance too, it certainly makes getting insurance easier. If you are a ocean crossing yacht you may need the skipper to have an Ocean Yacht-master qualification or similar in the future. A lot of us go through similar struggles, but its been tough on everyone the last year. I am glad you sorted it out . Fair winds guys.
i am deeply offended by nikki trying to make it look like she wakes up in bed, looking like THAT! and nikki, if you really look like this in the morning, you should be arrested, it’s just not fair! what i’m trying to say: you are beautiful!!! 😉 and the footage of you trying to take a thumbnail had me cracking up :D. glad you guys have insurance again!
A quick aside for online shopping for things like insurance and flights. Using a VPN will also get you better prices. There are trackers built into the sites that will start making the price go up the more often you look at it. There was an article a few years back here in Canada about this. They looked at first and third party flight tickets and Home/ Auto insurance both in Canada and the United States. What they found is that almost all companies started to make the price go up if they saw you return after some time with cookies from other sites. If you use a VPN and private browsing while you search for these types of services you will almost always get what the site thinks is the best deal for a first time looker.
I have been asked for insurance a few times, when I delayed in my answer, they said, ‘oh that’s ok’. That was my last haulout in the Chesapeake. It happened a few times in the Caribbean too. I did have insurance for my first few years, over 7k a year, but dropped it. Especially seeing everything that wasn’t covered. Now I live my life by the seasons and try to find a safe place to have my home. Increasingly hard with these active seasons. I guess the South Pacific it’s harder to find the hurricane holes. I hope you never have to use it. Love your vids!
Love the website, thanks. Insurance has always seemed as a rort, however I have learned: 1. Home/house insurance is mainly needed as people say ‘what if your house burns down?’, so I noticed from viewing 1000’s of accounts when I worked at ISPs and Telcos, is that some people pay $1000’s more than needed. I learned home insurance with the minimum to cover a 100% fire loss with the highest premium is the most affordable rate and you’re fully covered. Minor issues like theft or broken windows seldom occur and can be paid with the savings of lower home insurance. 2. Car insurance is a rort. I drive ~100,000 kilometres per year and have made 3 not-at-fault claims and learned car insurance don’t want you after 3 claims (unfair as I was not at fault). This then costs you a lot as no other car insurer wants you for 5 years of being denied by a car insurer. To avoid this rort, I learned to not claim insurance. Small bingles can be paid yourself with the savings at cheap but good panel beaters and repairers. So, fully insure the car, with the highest premium as you plan not to claim (you need to be a safe driver, I recommend taking a defensive driving course), then the low rates save you money to spend with a cheap but good panel beater and repairer. 3. Flying/travel insurance, always take insurance, but again often a credit card or some other insurance covers you for air travel or medical expenses if you’re sick. Big rort here too, as they often deny claims, which has personally shocked me in some tragic circumstances.
Funny how the insurance industry has changed over the last few hundred years. It used to be that you would go in and tell them what you want insured and they would give you a quote. Now they dictate to their customers what they will do and you either accept it or go without. Think about that for a minute…They dictate to their customers. 😐
“It doesn’t matter we have insurance!” Good luck with that…Insurance gives you peace of mind….until you need to make a claim. Then its a crapshoot. For some dealing with insurance is a pleasure. For others its a nightmare. If you think buying insurance was a giant headache wait till you have to jump through all the hoops of a claim. Best of luck.
really enjoy your articles from Vava”u. it’s been 20 years ago i vacationed there a couple times. Beautiful and yes remote. your insurance difficulties, i spent weeks on a island there Ovaka. no motor vehicle, one phone, the reef behind the island had a deck from a sailboat that ran aground just breaking to pieces. thx and best wishes
Yeppp we feel u on the insurance issue. We just spent weeks trying to get our boat insured with a wood stove, because we want to be off grid in the Pacific Northwest. Was a complete gong show, and like you said, prices just keep going up. We also weren’t able to get just liability insurance despite how many cruisers (even ones with wood stoves) have it. Just a gong show. It’s going to be interesting to see how things change within the next few years.
The insurance markets have gone crazy! Here in Florida, home insurance has skyrocketed in the past year…supposedly from increased claims on roof replacements vs repairs. My own insurance nearly doubled and SE Florida has limited options to begin with due to the population density vs hurricane potential. I’m very happy that you were able to get insured without the restrictions!!
Separate and divide asset protection and liability. 1. Incorporate business entity. Purchase professional liability. Divide responsibility of employees. 2. Have a firm establish a trust. Remove identity seperate from assets. 3. Cheap coverage for hull and the added assurance is likely found in home ownership…. Real property owners get the best rates.
GREAT article….. I’m looking with a friend of 30 years to buy something like a Fleming 75 and the insurance costs/quotes to allow us to cruise ‘globally’ are horrendous and that’s with either a ‘European or BVI’ flag….it’s a nightmare. Heads up… this lockdown situation is going to last until 2023..I suggest you plan in advance of your 2022 insurance renewal and try and time/position the location of the boat to facilitate a haul out inspection as I’m positive the rules/restrictions are only going to tighten as the year unfolds.
Ins sucks in every aspect of life. Especially in California, where we live near mtns, because of the fires many of us can’t get fire coverage. I’m so glad you found! I’m still very ignorant re: the many costs you must incure. My hubby and I just enjoy your adventures! We’re sticking with our rv jet skiis kinda adventures! We’ve been lucky with our current ins carrier many toys,rv and the only major event on a past house was entire roof coming off.
This is giving me major flashbacks of my family applying for boat insurance this year. It always difficult but on top of the pandemic and the demands they were making to get approved- forced me to practice all the gratitude I could for my live aboard situation. Even though it’s really not as glamorous as some picture and the maintenance is never ending, it’s still worth it.
Love the actual practical demonstration of a VPN. Having worked in insurance before, i feel your stress. Every single year they hike prices, why? More claims? Nope, shareholders and companies just want more each yeah, at the end of the day it boils down to pure greed. Sure some will say, its to do with goverments, cpi increases, or my favourite to laugh at… To stay competitive with our competitors…. Sadly its greed, sure there is a small percentage of people who rort the system ie fake claims etc. And if you think about this, if there are less american vessels in that area, that means your risk rating as a company is lower. Ie only one vessel there vs 100 is lower. More vessels higher risk meaning higher potential payouts. That should equal a price rise, which it usually does. … Sorry end rant. Love the articles! Sail safe ⛵
Lovely episode guys. Luckily I have not YET had insurance renewal issues but yes every year some strange new “exclusion” pops up the latest being no Caribbean cover. But hey with the rest of the world covered and us sailing the east coast of Africa ( no cover for Somalia but that’s a no brained) we hope for the best. Next year “Covid willing” we hope to spend a year in the med so we should be covered there to for now 🧐. One problem and solution at a time I suppose.
Keeping us all entertained is quite a full time job and then you still have to sail and maintain your equipment etc etc. Keep up the good work. You guys are slowly getting better at it all the time. Whats the story on articleing the unpacking of your dingy while addressing us all? Works, keeps me glued to the screen LOL. Big hugs from South Africa. When you guys coming this way?
I’m so glad to hear that you got it figured out. Six years! I’ve been perusal you for a long time! In full honesty I was a bit mad at you when you switched to a boat and I stopped perusal you a little while. I couldn’t stay mad for long though, not with the two of you! Sending good wishes from my little Airstream on Vancouver Island. 😘
In 7 years I’ve had two marine insurance companies get out of the business. A real pain, more money and worse, the survey, a $2,000 deal on the west coast including haul out. I never had insurance for my two ocean passages. Your comments at 04:00 are EXACTLY why I insurance companies have high price for passages, too many people abandon their boat while it’s still floating. Just a few years ago a high visibility sailing family did so of the coast of California for being seasick.
I also had major issues getting my insurance renewed by being in the Philippines. Same dramas as you with surveyors, limited coverages on named storms, etc, etc. In the end, the only available policy I could get was 3x more than the previous year with so many caveats and very high deductibles. I ended up taking the risk of not insuring, a year has almost passed already and no dramas. I can’t control mother nature (like in lightening strikes), but I can be overly cautious with my decisions and always do the safest thing possible. It seems that more and more insurance companies are backing out of the marine industry now, and it will just continue on.
You may be doing this, but when I was in boating, I had my boat surveyed every 5 or so years when hauled for a bottom job. Not for insurance reasons, but for my peace of mind. Peace of mind in knowing my boat was sound or if there were problems they were found while on the hard, not 100 or more miles off shore. Should you do this it would look great on your boat resume in getting insurance. The older your boat, the more important this is. This is expensive, but in boating most everything is. Wishing you smooth seas and gentle breezes.
Same, same, but different… The condominium insurance market in British Columbia experienced similar disruptions to the insurance industry in recent years. Last year, the insurance premium for our building increased by 300+%, while it was “only” 25% this year. I’ve heard of some buildings’ insurance increasing by 1100% in a single year. At the same time, deductibles for our building increased from $5000 to $50000. And it was all obtained at the last minute, with little opportunity to shop around. Not the same as what Jason and Nicki experienced, but certainly indicative of how wide-spread problems are with the insurance industry.
Glad I checked my blood pressure and poured a strong coffee before perusal this. Yes, I certainly get why we need insurance, but what a scam it is. With all the restrictions they put in place, it’s no wonder people don’t buy it. Having said all of that, hopefully now that you have put the insurance issue to bed for the year, you are able to get back on track and put some miles on the keel and venture off to other exotic locals. 14:39 great move to lighten it up Nikki. Fair winds and following seas. PS… have you thought of doing an RV series in Australia and New Zealand? That would make for a great change/break from sailing if you felt it was necessary for your sanity.
Over the years I have come to understand 3 things about insurance. 1. Any insurance; car, boat, RV, home, life, medical is all a gamble. How much are you willing to risk vs how much does it cost. 2. The main reason you buy insurance is so you can sleep at night (as Nikki so aptly shows in the opening scene) and you hope you never have to use it. 3. You never know how good your insurance is until you have to make a claim. This third point is the killer, because you can’t just try out insurance and see how you like it. You have to have something really bad happen and then HOPE you’re going to actually get paid. That’s why you always have to read all the fine print on the policy which can be quite a pain in the patuckus. So YAY for you guys to be sleeping well, what a big frickin’ ordeal just for some sleep. Now carry on, LOVE your articles!
some people use Johnson’s baby soap in a small bucket of water and duck the must in mix prior to entering the water to prevents fogging. Also on insurance one other vessel owner this month was quoting 5% insurance cost of the valuation of the vessel (USA) and future beget for 6% insurance cost of the valuation of the vessel (USA). With less insurance companies in the market cost will go up
Worked for major insurance company for 26 years, these boats are a LOOSING proposition. The companies have to depend on the insured buying other coverage (home, car, life etc) in a effort to compensate for the boat policy. Folks such as the Wynns apparently do not purchase other insurance. So I totally support the fact that out of country sailors are not covered. They are costing us all on OUR car and home polices. Let them self insure or stay home. One major $250,000 loss when your paying $4300 year? How many years does it take to recoup that loss for the insurance company? And whether people realize it or not the company is there to provide a service but also to make money, pay the employees and exist from profits. These old boats, and the Wynns boat is OLD, do not provide return on investment.
I’ve used Edward Williams marine insurance (UK) for the past 10 yrs. They usually place me with Northern reef. One of the ways I keep the costs way down is by a high deductible, as well as specific coverages, for example, limits on rig repair/ replacement. Another approach I take to insurance is how I handle the boat. That’s a long subject but it helps to mitigate ins costs to the point where I’m comfortable with limited coverage I order to drive down my annual rate. For example, I never enter a harbor at night, unless I REALLY know it. And when I enter an Anchorage, or reef pass I keep my speed to less than 3 kts so any impact will cause minimal damage were it to occur. I’ve also encase my keel in Kevlar for that scenario. I never trust the GPS when within 30 miles of a reef. I have seen MANY uncharted reefs and rocks in many parts of the world and the publishers of those databases WILL NOT guarantee what’s on there. Sorry you’ve had so much stress dealing with it. Insurance is definitely an annoyance and boat manufacturers are never quite upfront about these sorts of costs: insurance, maintenance costs, and marina fees.
I dislike insurance companies and insurance in general. Perhaps this is due to insurance being nearly non-existent when I was growing up in the 60’s or…that insurance companies can deny any claim they want with little repercussion. Times have changed yet I have not. I am very happy you were able to find a policy that was workable. Yay!
Insurance is a “risk-statistics” business. We all pay premiums, thinking our risk’s are covered, insurance companies like money coming-in, but not going out, deductibles, age, exclusions, etc, all in their favor. From the prices, you mentioned, I guess I won’t be buying a sailboat. Enjoying you sailing adventures. Thanks for sharing your lives with us old retired, broke viewers!
Absolutely feel your pain. Insurance was one of the main reasons I stopped flying my homebuilt aircraft, N36LV. When she first flew in late 2008 I had full coverage on a $225K hull value with a yearly premium of $3600. I had been flying for 30 years and never so much as scratched an airplane. By late 2014 my insurance company stopped insuring fast, retractable gear homebuilts. The only 2 companies that would insure me wanted $8200 for a $180K hull value. Nasty Industry.
I’m terms of insurance.. there are great companies and bad. You always need to do the right due diligence to find the best with the best customer care. Never ever go by cost alone. I look for information like how quickly they payout once claims are filed for example and how easy is it to make appropriate changes.. or even to talk to somebody.
As a yacht insurance broker I can relate to your frustration as I want to help people with their passion of boating. It has definitely got more difficult for me to find insurance for people, but you hit it on the head with building your resume. Companies look at experience, age of vessel, waters navigating, and most do want out of water survey within last 2-3 years. Hopefully as your experience increases and COVID related issues decrease it will become less of an issue. Not sure if I have access to any insurance carriers you have not got quotes from, but would love to help. I can offer this advice to anyone that owns a vessel of over 30’ no matter type or water’s navigated, make sure you have a true yacht policy that provides wreckage removal and pollution liability coverage with limits above the value your vessel is insured for. Also having agreed value coverage for your vessel is much better than ACV.
I havent watched this article yet but you should consider changing your insurance policy dates. If I remember correctly from your last article, you had to rush to get a haul out and new insurance in-place. Its pretty risky having a renewal date at the time of year that is difficult to get a haul out or in hurricane season. You can have your policy re-written with new effective dates that are beneficial to you. I just did it on my policy. It took two minutes to put the request in.
We sailed four boats from 24′ – 42′ as a couple from California throughout the South Pacific over 30 years and only had insurance when required by marinas except for one cyclone season that we stayed over in New Caledonia. Part of this was because we chose boats that we could own outright. If you have a bank loan you will always be limited by needing to have insurance. Maybe buying a boat you can afford makes more sense!
One case I heard of was a boat that ran aground on a reef and they could not get off. This was due to a storm. The couple were worried about pirates so stayed on the boat to protect it. The local government wanted money for reef damage. A salvage company wanted a ridiculous fee to remove said boat. In the end with another storm they had to abandon the boat and pay a salvage company. This mess went on for nearly a year until it was resolved with the insurance company and then they only paid a part of the cost to the boat owners.
Insurance is important but from my personal experience of surviving a near death experience at sea I know safety is of ultimate importance. How about an episode where you tell us about all of your safety features, preparations and plans – particularly for worst case scenario situations like holing and losing your boat during open ocean sailing ?
You would think that having your entire life on board Curiosity documented on article, that it would be at least a little easier to get boating insurance. I know if I was going to insure a world traveling S/V having the ability to watch the last haul out and see what shape the boat was in, and what all was done in repairs/upgrades, or to randomly click on articles and see how well the boat is maintained, and sailed would make a huge difference, when compared to only having word documents and a handful of pictures.
Nikki, it would be a lot easier and much cheaper to sale the Cat, move back to the States, and tour the country on touring bicycles, maybe start in Florida and ride to California, we’ve done the southern tier route 3 times, took about 9 weeks, we camped out a lot and would get a motel room a couple days a week. Çheap way to travel and see the country and no insurance needed.
Insurance right now is in the hard market. Less Insurance companies want to Insure, and narrows the field so the remaining Insurers can make their own rules (or change them). From what I have heard, this will last a few years so it will be an issue for a few years more. Remember most of the time Boat Insurance (as you have noted) is a cat loss. This means the whole boat needs replacing as well as the stuff on board and keeping you safe somewhere in the meantime. Losses of over $100K are small in most cases. Glad you were able to get things straight this year, but as you said it’s not an easy feat.
Ridiculous insurance fees (to pay 2.5% a year of the boat’s commercial value for something you rarely make use of) could be avoided if you set aside a sum of your money (invest it) in which way you are NOT losing that amount every year and in case of a very bad scenario (which can be prevented by being extra careful with your maintenance, travelling choices, anchoring decisions, etc) you’ll have funds to compensate. If the disaster never comes and I wish it won’t, your money will remain yours! Buy the cheapest insurance possible if you can’t be without one.
ciao lo accettate un consiglio per non aver più al condensa sui vetri della maschera da sub….. provate ad affumicare i vetri con un accendino …diventeranno sporchi e poi usate uno spazzoilno da denti con un pò di dentifricio spazzollateli per un po… e risciaquateli con acqua dolce QUANDO LE USERETE RESTERETE …….. ENTUSIASTI…BUONA VITA un vostro amico ITALIANO…
We got dumped by our insurence after three years in the Caribbean no claims because we never sailed the Pacific and yes they said we had to have three people who would qualify as skippers/capt. Our Voyage 440 is worth around 350k even though of course we have 400k invested and considering why we sail and travel the world that in itself is the opposite to everything insurance is about. Now we live almost 1k a month better without it!
I am a liveaboard sail for 44 years on three new boats. I’ve sailed from Canada to the ABC islands. Our third boat bought new in 2099 cost $1300 for 4k of insurance. Now in 2021 they have cut my value to 1.72K and want me to pay $3200. I never left the dock in 2020. My car insurance was cut thirty percent.
Loving my Sunday WYNN’ing fix! Insurance….well the good part I heard you say was that the insurance company did a blanket insurance recall to all US boats, meaning they weren’t picking on just you guys. Jason, Curious…I’m perusal other boats dealing with condensation issues…is this also a problem for you guys ? Cheers from White Rock, BC,Canada
So useful again… thank you! I hate insurance… and been looking into it and yeah concerned over the experience issues: I have experience just nothing written down. I need to start writing down what hours I have as you advised. What’s the issue with U.S registered boats? And yeah you’ve got to have insurance… you wouldn’t have a house that wasn’t insured against total loss. And holly XXXX the story about paying for damage to reef is ‘interesting’.
Watching your article. You show u you our boat. Had a crazy idea. Let start with blow up bass. Now would it be cool if there was long blow up bag that flat that could be mounted under your boat. But if problems arises you pull a lever and bags inflated. Now your boat safe and won’t sink. Yes you have to repair but not replace. Plus if it on boats then why shouldn’t insurance give you a cheaper rate😜
Great insight and rationale about why Nikki and Justin need the boat insurance: Apparently vessel insurence like the courts and obscure laws is a game of gotcha where money and legal advice matters. As to sailing vessel insurance – the cruiser community needs an intel source/service about what a given insurance company has done/strategy in the past when facing certain types of claims and what they did at a various loss levels. Then the collective cruiser community needs intel about maritime legal representation firms.. Which International law firm/s possess a proven track record of obtaining sailing vessel loss settlement that are fair and equitable. So the question is: Can anything be realisticaly done about boat owners negotiating individually every year. Is’nt this tilting the playing field in favor of the insurance companies..
Try getting that insurance company to pay out, my friend had an electrical fire, the boat was in ft. Lauderdale getting bottom paint new props an inspection for insurance. They marina crew were on the boat just doing last minute touch ups on the outside and the interior was smoking, electric panel fire
So currently you’re in Tonga right ? Which is to the North of New Zealand mainland by about 1,000 miles / 1,600 km so about 10 days sailing. There’s almost nothing in between, (except “The Kermadec Islands”, (legally part of NZ) being 1 big island and heaps of little rocks, but it’s all like protected “no entry” National Park Reserve and uninhabited as only scientists and weather forecasters with special permission can go there). The Kermadecs recently had a huge earthquake but nobody was home at the time LOL. Navy sent some people in afterwards, some filing cabinets etc had fallen over in the, mostly automated, weather forecasting buildings there, and some earthquake detection gear got knocked out from its power supply batteries etc. NZ is a sailing paradise with the Northern areas being barely a subtropical climate. NZ being a long skinny country stretching over 1,000 mi/1,600km North to South, the Southern areas being cool temperate (but still milder than even England’s warmest areas). Remember though there is nothing between NZ and Antarctica except for some tiny remote SubAntarctic Islands with only penguins and seals braving the cold wind. Cold winds can blow through up to the NZ mainland (Snow mostly only in high altitude mountain areas, and the very Southern parts of NZ during Winter). . Remember we’re just entering our Autumn/Fall season now (March/April). Things cost more here, especially engine oil, diesel fuel and gasoline/petrol. However USA dollars buy about one and a half NZ dollars.
Hi Could you pick up total loss insurance ? Doesn’t cover for minor events but would cover you for a major loss or abandonment . But would not cover for dock dents or dinghy loss . There are various levels of cover that can be negotiated but it would be through an insurance broker and not directly . If that’s any help
Your most valuable, “expensive” asset you own are your lives and your well-being and no boat comes close to that. As you’ve found, coronavirus has made so many things impossible – like finding crew who know port from starboard and finding it so hard to buy boat bits too. Yes, affects me and the upshot is I now find myself single-handing from the Iberian Peninsula to Panama. Just negotiated a policy revision for the regions involved and it’s clear that the insurer knows that means passage sailing where the terms of the policy says “no-can-do”. But there comes a time to do what you must – or largely abandon your boat, go home and take up knitting instead. A bit academic too because harsh reality of a crack-up means not being around to claim on a policy anyway – no insurance policy ever sailed a boat! Biggest thing I’m interested in is that I have enough insurance cred, my blue card, so I can enter port and marinas wherever I need to – coronavirus issues acknowledged. I made that clear with my insurer and had not the slightest difficulty in varying my policy and they even worked a formula that when I get through the Panama Canal (yes, they believe I will get there too), they will take out my European, Atlantic and Caribbean risk content and save me money. When I clear customs back home, they will cut out all the non Australian aspects and give me a credit too. Sorry people, I disagree with your premise here. Sometimes you pays your money and you takes your chances – and the sea doesn’t not play fair either and never will.
There really is too many people sailing around that don’t have the skills and experience for offshore sailing and these are the ones that think they can rely on insurance to save them and pay the bills when they stuff up or panic and hit the epirb. It has happened so many times and this is all putting upward pressure on premiums. That combined with charter companies that have fleets that live in Hurricane zones is ruining it for real blue water cruisers. I think you should spend all your insurance premium money on maintaining and improving your boat and your self reliant skills.
What is the best flag of convenience for blue-water boat insurance ? (a germane question ?) Is there an insurance company with a flag you could fly in conjunction with being sponsored by said company ? An insurance company invested in an active, visually-acknowledged expressing rapport may have an easier time of navigating the service-provider / customer rapport (?) Every success, -Marv
If I want to live on a trawler for a liveaboard does my husband and I need to take ASA Courses for my husband to become a captain and drive the boat by himself? I am wondering how this works. We want to take the boater courses and the captain course with the coastguard. We want to stay in the United States
I don’t sail but I enjoy the adventure aspect of being able to sail around the world. This is why I enjoy perusal a few sailing content makers. With that said my jaw almost hit the ground when I heard the boating industry lost over 100,000/year in the last few years. I’m guessing many would agree that blue water sailing is very dangerous. One of the reasons so many now die climbing MT Everest is the commercialism of the sport has led to many inexperienced individuals making the attempt. How many YouTubers have sold everything and purchased a boat to sail the world with little or no experience. I’m not in the insurance business, but insurance is a business. Like any business, there are good ones and bad ones. To be a success you need to provide a reasonably priced service/product while being profitable. The industry is being flooded with so many inexperienced sailors. So many are jumping into the deep end without the experience of shore sailing. To underwrite a policy with so many questionable boats and experience must be a nightmare. Why the need for insurance is important, the caught 22 of the situation is I would be questioning the integrity of an issuer willing to insure a boat sailing the world. If I was an experienced boat owner I’m guessing you have seen rates go through the roof. The pool of boats in bad condition along with the inexperienced sailors is getting large!
What I learned about insurance is from advice from other businessmen. Your insurance is as good as your agent. If you are denied a good lawyer is important, one who has record of beating insurance co’s One of our lawyers was so good the insurance co hired him. Also be able to prove what your lost is, article, receipts, etc. After a fire if it is gone they don’t have to pay unless you can prove it existed.
Happy happy you guys got insurance, thank God my wife and I are sitting here reliving our adventures in the UK and all the paperwork and stuff that we thought was a nightmare is not even close probably to what you guys are experiencing as a cruise or a couple trying to get insurance in the South Pacific. My wife is convinced it was actually worse for her in the UK, I don’t agree don’t listen to her LOL, you guys be safe and thank you for the wonderful time you spend with us 👍❤️👍❤️👍